| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
I've seen sentences with "kimi" written as キミ, not きみ. Since "kimi" is a japanese word, then why is it written in the Katakana alphabet? | ||
| Anonymous |
Okay~~ Time for the japanese lesson (^_-) Katakana *is* used primarily for "borrow-words", however, in some cases it can be used as some-what of an equivalent to the english italics. Putting things in katakana can actually make the sentence funnier! In your case, キミ is used a LOT by people. It's just how it is... Some people, instead of writing 僕 (boku) will write ボク! For example, I use 俺 (ore) for "me", and, i usually write it オレ. hope that helps and livened your day! | ||
| Matjlav |
Thank you VERY much. You seemed to have done a lot on this board last night. Anyway, one more question, please. In my dictionary, the definition for "kimi" says "masc. term for female." What do they mean by this? | ||
| Anonymous |
Well, what your dictionary means is that it is usually used by men (hence "masc.") for their female counterparts. Here are some examples! キミは一人じゃない (kimi wa hitori janai): you are not alone. 君が好き (kimi ga suki): i like you Those are just two examples. 君 is used in place of 貴方 (anata) for people who are close friends of yours (usually female, but not always... it can be used male-male in a jokingly-friendly mannor). I don't think girl's really use it for one-another, but that's really probably a personal choice. It's comparable to the use of 私 (watashi) and あたし (atashi) and ボク and オレ... i guess... hehe. does that answer your question? also, you are very welcome! hope i didn't really insult info. he/she seems nice... i can't phrase things in english properly sometimes...... | ||
| Matjlav |
one more bunch of questions: what kind of italics do you mean? would オマエは猫を殺した？ mean "So you killed the cat?" (strange sentence), or would お前はヒドい！ (would that "i" symbol be hiragana or katakana?) mean "You are mean!!" Just explain to me what kind of italics you mean, and give some examples. And in what cases are キミ used instead of 君? Thank you. Also, is the word お前 be an honorable term? And shouldn't "君が好き" be "君が好きだ"? Thank you. | ||
| Matjlav |
One more thing: Why is "kimi" written in katakana in the first message (kimi wa hitori janai), and in kanji in the second (kimi ga suki)? | ||
| Matjlav |
Darn it, I always try to avoid triple posting... anyway, I asked the question about "omae" because my trusty dictionary said: お前 【おまえ】 (n) (fam) you (sing), presence (of a high personage) the "presence" thing is the one that makes me think that. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Yeah, both of those are the italics that i mean. You can use キミ when doing informal things such as chatting online or whatever. Or, if you're a songwriter or whatever. Pretty much it's up to you when you want to write キミ instead of きみ or 君. The reason that i wrote it differently in both of those sentences was to show examples of both... There's no difference at all, it's just how i chose to write them (remember the オレ and ボク thing? it's the same...). お前 is definitely NOT a polite word... It's usually used between guy friends, or when you're angry at someone and yelling at them... You can also use it when talking to your wife, or a close friend who's a girl... but be careful with that, it can sound very rough. other bad words: おめえ (contraction of お前; pretty bad to say to someone) 手前 (てまえ) てめえ (contraction of 手前; pretty bad to say to someone) 貴様 (きさま) supposedly pretty bad, not heard very much (at least by me) | ||
| Matjlav |
What about my other questions, please? What kind of italics do you mean? and shouldn't "kimi ga suki" be "kimi ga suki da"? THank you if you answer these, and anyway. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
I answered the italics question. Italics just emphasize stuff... Japanese is a language that likes to drop things, and you don't always need to say things if they are understood. ex: ボトルロワイアルのDVDが欲しい (Battle Royale no DVD ga hoshii) the battle royale dvd is wanted (or i want the...) In this case, you don't have to say 欲しいです (hoshii desu), because it's understood. Same for "kimi ga suki". その婦人が綺麗ね (sono fujinn ga kirei ne) that woman is beautiful, wouldn't you say? (or something to that effect). So, you see? You don't *always* have to use a verb in japanese if it's understood. one last example: A: 桃子ちゃんはなんて？ (momoko-chann ha/wa nannte?) B: 来るって (kuru tte) A: What did momoko say? B: she said that she'll come. The proper ways would be 桃子ちゃんは何て言いましたか。 and 来ると言っていました, but since it's understood that "say" is the verb, you don't need to actually say it... Hope that makes sense! | ||
| Matjlav |
but I thought 欲しい is a regular adjective, so you must only change the "い" ending to make plain tenses, and "desu" is only for making polite adjectival verbs. But since 好き is an adjectival noun, don't you always need the copula? | ||
| Matjlav |
Oh yeah, I understand about the emphasis thing, but would "You are mean!" be お前はヒドい！ or お前はヒドイ！ (note the final "i" character difference) After this, unless you give me some further confusion, I should be fine. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Well, ヒドイ and ヒドい are both fine... again, it just depends on how *you* (the writer) want to write it(^o^). 好き (suki) "liking" is a "な" (na) adjective. Just like 綺麗 (kirei) "beauty/clean", 静か (shizuka) "(the noun) quiet", 嫌 (iya) or 嫌い (kirai) "dislike". "な" (na) adjectives *are* adjectival nouns... 綺麗 means "beauty/clean" and when you add な (na) it "becomes an adjective" (beautiful/clean). If you want to say "did like" then you should add the past-tense of the copula (e.g., だった (datta) or でした (deshita)): 好きだった liked 綺麗だった was beautiful/clean 静かだった was quiet 嫌・嫌いだった was disagreeable/didn't like That all make sense? And, don't be sorry for askin questions! That's what learning is all about! I'll definitely work with you until you are not confused on a subject~~! | ||
| matjlav |
what about my second question...? | ||
| Matjlav |
oh nevermind I see the top of your other message... and.... one more thing. If you omit the copula when it's understood (kimi ga suki), then when is "da" used, since if it's polite you would just use "desu"? | ||
| Matjlav |
Wait a minute! Couldn't you say "嫌かった" for "was disagreeable"? Well, from my dicitonary, there are different abbreviations for adjective (adj) and adjectival noun (adj-na). Adjectives always end in "i", while adjectival nouns don't. And from my site that I look to for grammar problems, it says that to form "to be" with normal adjectives, you must change the "i" ending. So, couldn't you change "i" to "katta" for the past tense? | ||
| Matjlav |
wait about that last post... sorry I didn't even look the word up. even though it ends in "i", it's an adjectival noun... oops. Well just pretend that I was talking about "欲しい". Example: "ゲームは欲しかった。" = "Geemu wa hoshi-katta" = "The game was wanted" = "I wanted the game" | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Yes. Adjectives (a) and Adjectival Nouns (an) do have different abbreviations in dictionaries because they ARE different. In addition, all adjectives end in "i" and *MOST* adjectival nouns do not. I think you meant ゲーム※が※欲しかった (game GA hoshikatta). The actual sentence is 私はゲームが欲しかったです (watashi ha/wa game ga hoshikatta desu), therefore it's "ga" not "ha/wa". Koo, peace(^o^) Good to see your thought-patterns! | ||
| Matjlav |
What's up with that ※? Anyway, why would it be 私はゲームが欲しかったです? "Wa" is a subject marker, and so is "ga." So... is there, like, two subjects? Or is that just the sentence structure?And I'm taking from this that "You (probably) want the game" would be キミはゲームが欲しいだろう。 Am I right in thinking this? Thank you. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
oh, ※ is like *, sorry...hehe. i'll start a new thread after work trying to explain some differences between は and が. Is that okay? | ||
| Matjlav |
What about my other question? When is "da" used? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
You can use だろう for: 1.) 推量 (suiryou) "a guess/conjecture": I think; I suppose; I reckon; [in America] I guess; 2.) 良いことを予想 (yoi koto wo yosou) "hope/expect/anticipate for good thing": I hope (that)...; 3.) 悪いことを予想 (warui koto wo yosou) "expect/anticipate for bad thing": I am afraid [FORMAL: I fear] (that)...; (恐らく...だろう (osoraku ... darou) perhaps； probably； maybe Like I wrote in some other thread... だ (da) is just informal form of です (desu) which is more informal than である (de aru), which is more informal than でござる (de gozaru). | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
I forgot to say that description was in Word XP 翻訳 function's 和英辞書. I changed it a little and translated some things. | ||
| Matjlav |
Hmm... I'm going to try and do a sample conversation to sum up everything I've learned. Point out any mistakes, please! Japanese: A: オレはキミより賢い。 B: いいえ、ない。 A: キミはオレの知性が欲しい。 B: いいえ！私は賢い！ A: ああ、オロカシイ！ B: お前はなんて？ A: オロカシイって。 B: 何たる無礼！ A: 此の上やり合わないべきね。 B: 宜しい。 Romaji: A: Ore wa kimi yori kashikoi. B: Iie, nai. A: Ore no sasai ga hoshii. B: Iie! Watashi wa kashikoi! A: Aa, orokashii! B: Omae wa nante? A: Orokashii tte. B: Nantaru burei! A: Konoue yariawanai beki ne. B: Yoroshii. English: A: I'm smarter than you. B: No. No, you aren't. A: You want my knowledge. B: No! I am smart! A: Well, you are stupid! B: What did you say? A: I said you are stupid! B: How rude! A: We should stop fighting, shouldn't we? B: Very well then! Ummm... yeeeeeeeeah. Okay. So, how'd I do? One more thing, about your "kuru tte" sentence, what is up with the "tte" part? Wouldn't "itte" or "yutte" mean "saying" (perfect participle)? So shouldn't it be "kuru ta"? And how would you pronounce "tte"? Would you pronounce it "tuh-tay" or just "tay"? Thank you! | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Well, i'll try to make this a little more "conversational" and correct a few errors for ya (^_-)☆ Japanese: A: オレはお前より賢いよ〜 B: 違うわー！そんは絶対ないよ！ A: オレほどなりたいでしょー！ B: ううん！アタシは、本当は賢いわよ！ A: おまえ、馬鹿だよ。 B: はぁ？何？聞こえなかった。 A: オ・マ・エ・バ・カ・ダ・ヨッ B: あれっ。そんな失礼なことを言うなよ、てめえ！ A: あら、失礼しました・・・ご免ね。やめよう？これから頑張って喧嘩にならないでいよう ・・・ B: そうっすね。なんでいつも喧嘩になるのよぅ。 Romaji: A: ore ha omae yori kashikoi yo-- B: chigau wa-! sore ha zettai nai yo! A: ore hodo naritai desho-! B: uun! atashi ha, hontou ha kashikoi wa yo A: omae, baka da yo. B: haa? nani? kikoenakatta. A: o ma e ba ka da yo B: are!? sonna shiturei na koto wo iu nay o, temee! A: ara, sitsurei shimashita... gomen-ne. yameyou? kore kara ganbatte kenka ni naranaide iyou... B: sou ssu ne, nande itsu mo kenka ni naru no yo. English: A: I’m smarter than you! B: NO WAY! That’s so not true! A: You wanna be as smart as me, don’t you! B: NO! Really, I am smart! A: God, you’re stupid... B: Huh? What? I didn’t hear what you said. A: YOU ARE STUPID B: WHAT!? Don’t f*cking say that to me! A: Oops... I’m sorry... Forgive me. Let’s stop. Let’s try to not argue from now on. B: Yeah, you’re right. Why do we always fight? I don't know if it's what you meant... And, there could be errors (nobody's 100% good at japanese, right?)... But, I think that might be closer to the "them's fightin words" kind of talk that you were looking for. Translation of your english: A: 私は貴方より賢いです。 B: いいえ。そうでもありません。 A: 私の知っていることを学びたいです。 B: 違います。私の頭も良いですよ。 A: まあ、貴方が馬鹿だと思う。 B: 仰ったことは何ですか。 A: 馬鹿だと言いました。 B: それは失礼です。 A: 喧嘩することをやめるべきでしょうか。 B: はい。 but that doesn't sound too natural. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
来るって ------------------------------------------------- This is a contraction of: 来ると言っていました (kuru to itteimasita) Pronounciation (発音): kurutte or "koo-roo-PAUSE FOR ONE SYLLABLE AND GET READY TO SAY TE-te" I don't know what "kuru ta" means... Did you mean to say 来た (kita) "came"? Also, where did i post that? i cannot remember... | ||
| Matjlav |
Thank you for that! Heh, I knew that mine was not good for a fight, but I'm not good at that stuff. But... what exactly is that "っ" at the end of "あれっ。" for, and how would it? what is up with the "ー"s at the end of the sentences? And what about "はぁ"? Why is the "a" small? I understand that it just means "huh," but I'm a curious guy... And one more thing, what does "そうっすね。" exactly mean, anyway? | ||
| Matjlav |
Oh yeah, and why would you say "itteimashita" instead of "itta"? Why would you say "she is saying she will come"? And what would the "と" in "来ると言っていました" be for? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Okay, sorry to introduce such non-standard, spoken japanese w/out explaining it. Thanks for asking, i'll do my best! あれっ ------------------------------------------------- The "っ" (small tsu) makes the word chopped-off when you speak it. So, instead of "areeee" it would be "are(cut-off immediatley)". 〜 and ー ------------------------------------------------- These just extend the vowel previous. Exact opposite of っ (small tsu). So, "sho-----" and "yo----", just say them for a long time! ぁぃぅぇぉ (small vowels) ------------------------------------------------- These are trailing-off sounds. Therefore, your voice trails off.... So, はぁ is "haaaa" with your voice trailing off. そうっすね (soussune) ------------------------------------------------- This is a contraction of そうですね (sou desu ne). 言った and 言ってた ------------------------------------------------- These both express "said", but in this case 言った (itta) is used for something you said (usually), and 言ってた is for what other people said (usually). The semi-formal 〜ます (-masu) forms are: 言いました (iimashita) and 言っていました (itteimashita). 〜と〜 (~to + verb) ------------------------------------------------- 〜と言っていました (~to itteimashita) means "said that". The と (to) means "that" in this situation. EXAMPLES: 「私の鉛筆です」じゃなく「私は鉛筆です」と恵子が言っていました。 ("watashi no enpitsu desu" janaku "watashi ha enpitsu desu" to keiko ga itteimashita) "Keiko said 'i am a pencil' instead of 'it's my pencil'." [私は]これが鉛筆だと思います ([watashi ha] kore ga enpitsu da to omoimasu) "i think that this is a pencil" | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
I noticed that i typed "そんは" instead of "それは" up in that dialogue.... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
By the way, when i was saying that "you don't have to say" things, i meant in informal situations. In formal situations, you should *ALWAYS* use the MOST respectful grammar and words that you know. | ||
| Matjlav |
Okay, so, what do the っ, 〜, and ー marks mean, exactly? Do they just symbolize how it is said? And why did you say that 来るって would mean "she said she'll come"? From the info above, I would think it would be 来るってた. Am I right? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
They don't really "mean" anything. They just help with pronounciation. what does the letter "a" mean? 〜 and ー are the same (when you are chatting with someone online) and tell you to extend the sound of the previous vowel. Now, as for 〜, this actually does have a meaning if you use it in a certain way: 〜と言っていました In this kind of case it means "they said ..." っ tells you to pause if before a non-vowel, and then say that non-vowel. Or, if at the end of a sentence/phrase/whatever and nothing follows it (save for punctuation), then it tells you to cut-off the sound. ------------------------------------------------- Sorry, i guess that i'm not explaining this very well... 来るって言ってた and 来ると言ってた mean the same thing. Does that last part make sense? So, you can say "来るって" to mean both "来るって言ってた" and "来ると言ってた" (which are exactly the same thing). | ||
| Matjlav |
Well where is the って in 来るって coming from, if it is also in 来るって言ってた? So what does the って mean? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
IT FREAKING MEANS "と"!!! HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY IT!???!!!!?? (sorry, bad day @ work; kinda edgy...) | ||
| Matjlav |
okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay... well, one tiny more thing... how would you write っ at the end of a sentence in Romaji? | ||
| Matjlav |
And one more thing: in そんな失礼なことを言うなよ、てめえ！, why did you romanize it as "sonna shiturei na koto wo iu nay o, temee!"? was it just a typo? shouldn't it be "na yo"? and what does it mean? Thanks | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Yeeahh.... that was *another* typo.... jeepers! I CAN'T FRIGGEN TYPE!! HHAHAHA. Oh, well. Thanks for pointing it out! Well, i guess that i did forget to explain how to type the small letters!!! WOOPS!!! っ = ltu or ltsu or xtu ぁ = la or xa etc... Basically, put an "l" (which i do... easy to remember for you guys cuz "l" could mean "little"? maybe?) or an "x" in front of the vowel/tsu/ya,yu,yo that you want to make small and it'll come up! Yay^^ But, you can set it to whatever you want (look in your setting panel for the IME)... Those are just the defaults. ------------------------------------------------- More grammar! YAY! plain verb + な (and optionally よ) This construction is a more rude way of saying "don't verb" EXAMPLES: そんなことを気にするな (sonn-na koto wo ki ni suru na) "don't f*cking care about that!" それを言うな (sore wo iu na) "don't f*cking say that" BUT, it all depends on who you're talking to! If it's your friends, it'll be your pronounciation that determines the actual "strength". Same for english, right? "don't fuckin say that, dude" or "DON'T FUCKIN SAY THAT, DUDE". See? THE 'PROPER' WAY: そんなことを言わないで下さい (sonn-na koto wo iwanaide kudasai) "please do not say those things" それを気にしないで下さい (sore wo ki ni shinai de kudasai) "please don't mind that" I switched them (そんなこと and それ), but, it's all good(^O^) Hope you get this! I'll not be so edgy... hehe... (///) <--- that's an embarassed face ------------------------------------------------- そんな失礼なことを言うなよ、てめえ (sonn-na shiturei na koto wo iu na yo, temee) This kinda means "don't f*cking say that rude stuff to me, ass hole!" or whatever... | ||
| Matjlav |
Hmm... then why did you romanize あれっ。 as "Are?!" rather than "Arextsu", "Areltsu", "Arextu", or "Areltu"? Same thing for "haa?" Why didn't you romanize it "haxa" or "hala"? Thank you! | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
becaus you don't say "haxa" or "hala" or "arextsu" or "areltsu" or "arextu" or "areltu"... Romanization is for typing as well as pronounciation....... I will type however you want me to, but, it's just, I didn't want to confuse people by saying "areltu" because they'd be like "how the hell do you say that!?" | ||
| Matjlav |
One tiny more thing: "Basically, put an "l" (which i do... easy to remember for you guys cuz "l" could mean "little"? maybe?) or an "x" in front of the vowel/tsu/ya,yu,yo that you want to make small and it'll come up!" What do you mean by "it'll come up"? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Oh, i meant when you're typing, it'll "come up" or "show up". when i type "la" or "xa" "ぁ" came/showed up. that make sense? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Oh, and I should just try to make something clear... I was reading your posts from above in this thread, and it seems to me that you think (I could be wrong) that there is polite and impolite. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. There are many varying forms of politeness in Japanese! So, when you say "desu makes it polite", I hope you mean just "politer than 'da'" instead of "absolutely most polite" because "de aru" is more polite and "de gozaru" is even MORE polite... So, yeah... 尊敬語 = sonkeigo = honorific language 謙譲語 = kenjyougo = modest language 丁寧語 = teineigo = polite language Here are some things to check out: (I’m sorry, they're all in Japanese... maybe you could use babel fish or something?) http://st.u2b.co.jp/forum04/honor_l/ http://www.kitty-manners.ne.jp/s6/index.html http://www.bwg.co.jp/cams/work/analog/keigo.html I’ll try to translate and post this page: http://st.u2b.co.jp/forum04/honor_l/po011.html | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
尊敬語と謙譲語と丁寧語 Sonkeigo, Kenjyougo, and Teineigo 敬語には大きく分けて、尊敬語、謙譲語、丁寧語の３つの種類があります。 If you divide Keigo, you get three types: Sonkeigo, Kenjyougo, and Teineigo. それぞれの違いを理解することが、正しく敬語を使う第一歩です。 Understanding the differences is the first step to using Keigo correctly. ■尊敬語 相手を尊重する SONKEIGO To have respect for the person with whom you are speaking.. 相手を高く位置づけ、その人を丁寧に扱う言葉。相手およびその動作・状態・所有物など に敬意の加わった形で表現します。 This is a language that places the other person in a high position, or treats the other person politely. It is a pattern for expressing added respect for the other person and the demeanor, situation, or your possessions, et cetera. 例） (examples) ・相手の動作や状態を高める／お話しになる、いらっしゃる、おっしゃる、召し上がる *To ennoble such things as the other person’s demeanor/behavior/actions and appearance. EX: ohanashi ni naru, irassharu, ossharu, meshiagaru. ・相手や第三者を高める／○○さま、○○さん、○○部長、○○先生、こちらさま *To ennoble the other person and third parties. EX: blah-sama, blah-san, blah-buchou, blah-sensei, kochira-sama ・相手側に近い人や会社、所有物を高める／ご家族、ご親戚、御社、お荷物、お手紙 *To ennoble things like people, companies, possessions close to the other person. EX: go-kazoku, go-shinseki, onsha, o-nimotsu, o-tegami ・相手の性質や状態を高める／お詳しい、ご立派、ご心配、お淋しい、お元気 お忙しい *To ennoble things like the other person’s disposition and appearance. EX: o-kuwashii, go-rippa, go-shinpai, o-sabishii, o-genki, o-isogashii ■謙譲語 自分を謙遜する KENJOUGO To be humble toward yourself 自分の動作・状態・所有物などを低く扱う言葉。自分を低めることで間接的に相手を高め 、相手への敬意を表します。 This is a language to place your demeanor, your appearance or your possessions lower. By lowering yourself, you indirectly ennoble the other, and in turn show respect. 例） (examples) ・自分の動作を低める／お届けする、拝見する、うかがう、お教えいただく、お許し願う *To lower your demeanor. EX: o-todoke suru, haiken suru, ukagau, o-oshie itadaku, o-yurushi negau ・自分そのものを低める／わたくしども、小生 *To lower the value of yourself. EX: watakushi-domo, shousei ・自分の会社や学校、所有物を低める／弊社、小社、弊校、粗茶、粗品 *To lower your company, school, possessions, etc. EX: heisha, shousha, heikou, socha, soshina ■丁寧語 相手を丁寧に扱う TEINEIGO To treat the other with respect 言葉の使い方を丁寧にすることで、話し手が聞き手に対する敬意を表す表現です。 By politening the way one uses language, it is an expression that the speaker is showing respect to the listener. 例） (examples) ・○○です、○○ます、○○でした、○○ました、○○でしょう、○○ましょう、○○で ございます *blah desu, blah masu, blah deshita, blah mashita, blah deshou, blah mashou, blah de gozaimasu | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Reading it, this should change: If you divide Keigo, you get three types: Sonkeigo, Kenjyougo, and Teineigo. into If you divide Keigo largely, you get three main types: Sonkeigo, Kenjyougo, and Teineigo. i just think it sounds better/translates better. | ||
| Matjlav |
What do you mean by when you type it, it comes up? Are you typing in a japanese word processor or something...? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Dude, how do you type japanese? You use the global IME, right? I'm using japanese winxp... | ||
| Matjlav |
Oh, no... I use JWPce. And for that, to type small letters, you type "+a/e/i/o/u/tsu/wa/ka/whatever". So, yeah, I use that. What I meant by "how do you romanize small characters" is how you express them in Romaji... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Well, you just write it as it is... 一ヶ月 or 一ヵ月 is "ikkagetsu" わぁ is "waa" ヵヮィィ is "kawaii" 何やってんのぉ "nani yattenn noo?" etc | ||
| Matjlav |
how do you write a small tsu at the end of a sentence? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
you can't unless you wanna screw-up your reader. Adding small vowels, etc., is not considered formal japanese writing... That is why there is no *official* romanization. A small tsu just means "cut-off immediately" when at the end of a clause/sentence. So just express it some way like i do: "(CUT-OFF SOUND)" or something. | ||
| Matjlav |
and one more question: why can animal names be written in Katakana, and is this informal? My automatic online translator (which SUCKS, so i don't usually rely on it) will translate イヌ as "dog," カ as "mosquito," ハリネズミ as "porcupine," and イルカ as "dolphin." Is it okay to write ALL animal names in katakana, and is it informal in any way? And is there any reason why they can be written this way? | ||
| Matjlav |
oh yeah... and what are ヵ, ヶ, ヮ, and ゎ symbols used for? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Well, all i can really say for the katakana thing is that the "kanji are hard to write"... I don't think that they're that hard... but, i've always like kanji and shodou anyway(^_-) Actually, also, your "automatic translator" is prabably just mapped by kana to the appropriate word. Therefore, いぬ and イヌ will give the same result... BUT, i could be wrong......... hehe. As for the little "wa"s, i have no idea what they're used for! haha. The little "ka" and "ke" are for writing: 一ヶ月 and 一ヵ月, which mean the same darn thing... I'd have to do some linguistic researching to find out the real reason for the difference in writing, but my hunch is that "一ヵ月" is the newer pronounciation and "一ヶ月" is the older pronounciation. They sound similar if you were to say them as written, but are both pronounced "ikkagetsu". | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
btw: いぬ (inu) is 犬 or 狗 カ (ka) is 蚊 ハリネズミ (harinezumi) is 針鼠 (actually it's an hedgehog) ヤマアラシ (yamaarashi) is 山荒し (porcupine) イルカ (iruka) is 海豚 (hahaha, i love this cuz it means "sea pig") And i forgot to say that I don't know about *all* animals, but, you can safely write most in katakana. | ||
| info |
Please note that the second kanji character for the dog symbol should not be used in Japanese. It is for the dogs to eat (it is a different kind of species) and Japanese have never took the habit to eat them contrary to other Asians such as Chinese or Koreans. Kind regards | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Hehe. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Shoot, forgot to add the link... http://www.nifty.com/cgi-bin/dic_search.cgi?book=3&word=%8B%E7&mode=1&page=0&ite m= | ||
| Matjlav |
Hey, 狗 can also mean puppy!!! Evil Chinese and Koreans. Even though I'd never eat dogs anyway. Because I like them too much. Well at least Japanese people know what's right to eat and what's not! Hehe... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Actually, in the prefecture 山梨, they have a special delicacy called 馬刺し... I'll let you guess what that is...  YUP, RAW HORSE!!! | ||
| info |
Hey, Matjalv, please don't criticize what other people are eating. It is politically incorrect. The culinary habit being strongly related to the culture of each folk, criticizing it means making fun of them. kind regards | ||
| Matjlav |
oh... yeah... sorry bout that. (///) That's an embarrased face, right, Mr. Anonymous? Forgot about that... Sorry Chinese and Korean people!!! | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Oh, yeah! I forgot to say "yes, that is an embarassed 顔文字 (face characters)" We're both forgetful, eh? | ||
| Matjlav |
YAY! Hiyaku (info) just e-mailed me asking me to be a moderator! w00t w00t! anyway, for imperatives, i've got a gut feeling that in Japanese, plain imperative (not te-form verb + kudasai e.g. ストアへ行いてください。 Please go to the store) is always rude. E.g. ストアへ行け。Go to the store. ストアへ行くな。Don't f*cking go to the store. Am I right? | ||
| Matjlav |
Oh yeah, and what are the plain (not polite) imperative forms of the copula and adjectival verbs? I know what polite is. 良くてください (yokute kudasai) please be good. ハッピーでください。 (Happii de kudasai) please be happy. but what are the plain forms? my japanese grammar site that I go to never lists them. | ||
| Matjlav |
wait a minute... It DOES say something about it: The adjectival verbs do not have these types of inflections, although the subject of a sentence is a motional object which has wills like human beings, animals and so on. When you express these moods, you use ordinary verbs "naru" which means "to become", "suru" which means "to do", and so on. What does that mean? Is it sort like ハッピーしろ "be happy" or ハッピーしてください "Please be happy" or 良いするな for "don't be happy"? | ||
| info |
Dear Matjlav, your moderator account is open. Your can now delete the idiot messages such as "how to say fuck in Japanese":-) Kind regards, | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Congrats, Matjlav. I don't want to add my email here cuz there's no masking, and i already get waaayy toooo muuccchh 迷惑メール (meiwaku mail), or "junk mail" as it is... (／o^)／*:･'ﾟ☆｡.:*:･'ﾟ★｡.:*:･'ﾟ☆｡.:*:･ ＼(^o＼) おめでとうございます。 (°°）（・・）（。。）（・・）(°°） m(- -)m m(_ _)m m(- -)m | ||
| Matjlav45 |
okay, then, but I still need an answer for my other questions... wait a minute... It DOES say something about it: The adjectival verbs do not have these types of inflections, although the subject of a sentence is a motional object which has wills like human beings, animals and so on. When you express these moods, you use ordinary verbs "naru" which means "to become", "suru" which means "to do", and so on. What does that mean? Is it sort like ハッピーしろ "be happy" or ハッピーしてください "Please be happy" or 良いするな for "don't be happy"? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
well, sorry... forgot to answer. anway, "be happy" is said 元気(を)出して Other than that, i'm not quite sure what the "these types of inflections" and "these moods"... Could you elaborate? | ||
| Matjlav |
Oh, they were talking about the imperative and intent mood. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
what's "intent mood"? | ||
| Matjlav |
Basically, it's sort of equivalent to "let's (blank)" in English. | ||
| Matjlav |
or you could view it as the subjunctive form. | ||
| Matjlav |
oh... I guess I'm not explaining myself very well... The intent form is: チャーチへ行きましょう Chaachi e iki-mashou: Let's go to church. チャーチへ行きますまい Chaachi e iki-masu mai: Let's not go to church. | ||
| Matjlav Username: Matjlav Registered: 07-2003 |
oh yeah, so why does 元気(を)出して mean "be happy"? And is plain imperative always rude in Japanese? Thanx! | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
元気を出して下さい ------------------------------------------------- 元気 is "spirit" or "pep" or "energy"... so... "put out some energy" or something would be literal. Plain imperative and such are not "rude", per say, they are just of lower politeness. They are used with/by familiar persons, and from a person of higher stature to lower stature. | ||
| Matjlav |
okay, so... what would "be a doctor" or "be tall" be? | ||
| Matjlav |
I'm guessing it would be ドクターになって下さい (dokutaa ni natte kudasai) for "Be a doctor" (Become a doctor) and 高くなって下さい (takaku natte kudasai) for "Be tall" (become tall)? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Yeah(^o^) | ||
| Matjlav |
so, like... how could one use 出す to express an adjective ending in -i, like 嬉しい? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Sometimes you can't translate things literally; you have to take the "meaning" or the "general idea" and then port that into a/the way it's portrayed in another language... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
anyway, so, 嬉しくなってください is "be(come) happy" | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
YAY! I FOUND A SITE IN ENGLISH FOR EXPLANATION OF KEIGO!!!!!!!! http://www.tokujo.ac.jp/Tanaka/WWW97/Hello6/fumiko.html | ||
| Matjlav |
oooh. yes. But just one more off-topic thing: What's the difference between 私 (watashi) and わたくし (watakushi)? Thanks | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
私（わたくし） is, as i can think now, the most formal "i". 私（わたし） is a bit less formal...yet still pretty formal. | ||
| Matjlav |
er, so would informal "I" be ボク and あたし and オレ? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
weeeellll... GUY -------- わたくし わたし ぼく おれ GIRL -------- わたくし わたし あたし going from top-down most-least formal | ||
| Matjlav |
おれ/オレ/俺/乃公 is masculine? I didn't know that... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
Yeah, well... It's very "boastful" for "I". It's very, very rude for people of higher status than you, and people you don't know... I would highly suggest that a foreigner not use it at all! | ||
| Matjlav |
so, I'm supposing that you use normal verbs to express the general idea to make potential forms and such? E.g. キミはいく働ける。 You can be good. (lit: you can act good.) Right? Or... キミは私にいくなく働かれる。 (not sure about the iku naku part) You [unwillingly/accidentaly] let me be bad. (lit: You [unwillingly/accidentaly] let me act bad) Is this right? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
働ける means 'can work' or 'can function'... by 'act', do you mean 'behave'? in that case it would be 振る舞う(furumau) or 行動する (koudou suru). EX: 自然に振る舞う (shizen ni furumau) behave naturally 自然に振る舞える (shizen ni furumaeru) can behave naturally 愛想よく振る舞う (aiso(u)yoku furumau) behave friendly 愛想よく振る舞える can behave friendly I'm not sure what you mean by "いく"... maybe you mean よく? ex: いい (よい) good よかった was good よく *adv* well/skillfully/properly/fully/etc. 【文例】良く英語を話す speak english well | ||
| Matjlav |
okay then... well, then would it be キミは私によくなく振る舞われた。? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
what? "you were behaved badly by me"? that doesn't make sense... could you write out the english again? i didn't understand in the first time... sorry... | ||
| Matjlav |
"You [unwillingly/regretfully] let me act bad" cuz that's the indirect passive, right? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
i don't get what you mean "let me act badly"... wouldn't you be the person who chose to act badly? And, what's "inderect passive"? | ||
| Matjlav |
"indirect passive" is would be like using the passive to express the general same idea of, for example, 飲ませる (nomaseru), except it's like you didn't mean to let them do it. Sort of like... 私はキミに月ちゃんを殺された "I [unwillingly/regretfully] let you kill Runa!" or something, as apposed to 私はキミにスクールへ歩かせた "I let you walk to school". I dunno, that's what my grammar site that I think to be pretty reliable, but I may be wrong. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
I think i know the confusion you're having... られる and させる forms... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
〜あれる = passive. 例：(examples) 押す to push 押される to be pushed 捨てる to throw away 捨てられる to be thrown away 見る to see/look/whatever 見られる to be seen/looked at/watched/whatever If you want to express the thing doing the action, you put "に (ni)" after it. 文例: (sentences) 1a)That person over there looked at me. あの人が私を見ました。(ano hito ga watashi wo mimashita) 1b)I was looked at by that person over there. あの人に見られました (ano hito ni miraremashita) 2a)I pushed the button. 私がボタンを押しました。(watashi ga botan wo oshimashita) 2b)The button was pushed by me ボタンが私に押されました。(botan ga watashi ni osaremashita) 3a) What did you throw away? 貴方は何を捨てましたか。(anata ha nani wo sutemashita ka) 3b) What was thrown away by you? (*this is weird... sorry*) 何が貴方に捨てられましたか。(nani ga anata ni suteraremashita ka) i can't really think of anything else... does that make sense? | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
〜させる = make someone do ~ 例: (examples) 食べる to eat 食べさせる to make someone eat 見る to look 見させる to make someone look やる to do やらせる to make someone do If you want to express the thing doing the making, you put "が (ga)" after it. If you want to express the thing being made to do the action, you put "に (ni)" after it. 文例： (sentences) 1)Keiko-san makes the baby eat vegetables. 恵子さんが赤ちゃんに野菜を食べさせる。(keiko san ga akachan ni yasai wo tabesaseru) 2)Please make your students watch this film. この映画を生徒に見させてください。(kono eiga wo seito ni misasete kudasai) 3)Parents make their kids do homework. 親は子供に宿題をやらせる。(oya ha kodomo ni shukudai wo yaraseru) man, i'm brain-dead for ideas today... | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
that should have been: If you want to express the thing doing the making, you put "が (ga)" or "は (ha/wa)" after it. | ||
| Mr. Anonymous |
NOW FOR THE FINALIIIIIE~~~ 〜させられる = to be made to do ~ 例: (examples) 食べる to eat 食べさせられる to be made to eat 文例: (sentence) My mom made me eat vegetables. お母さんに野菜を食べさせられた。(okaasan ni yasai wo tabesaserareta) This has an air of pitty about it... |